From: Sikes (sikes@squat.net)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 14:29 uur
HAI
I agree with pim for the following reasons:
the squatters movement is not some kind of housingproject for people with
a political hobby but attempts broad social change. nationalism of any
kind is deeply reactionary and should therefore not be fostered in any of
the movements mediums also not on this list.
The fact that some people do not speak more than one or two languages is
indeed regretable and can be helped. a serious internationalist should
attempt to learn as many languages as possible! nevertheless mono or
duoglotty (greek!) should not stand in the way of common goals.
although i can speak and write dutch (and some more languages) i will post
to this list in english from now on. I think that most dutch people and
most non dutch internationalists subscribed to this list can understand
english. If there is really somebody that does not I suggest to
>'Buy yourself a dictionary. It will probably take only one month to
> be able to understand most of this language if you have got some
> brain.'
furthermore i regard the squatters international mailing list as the wrong
approach because information on that list will be quite limited seen the
fact that translation means extra work.
I DO NOT HAVE MY MOTHERS TONGUE, I HAVE MY OWN!
THE NETHERLANDS ONLY EXIST IN CAPITALIST PROPAGANDA AND THE HEADS OF ITS
VICTIMS!
THE BORDERS ARE NOT BETWEEN NATIONS BUT BETWEEN RICH AND POOR
we are the world
kizziz
IAH
On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Pim wrote:
> Quotes:
> 'Buy yourself a dictionary. It will probably take only one month to
> be able to understand most of this language if you have got some
> brain.'
>
> 'Dear New Babylonians,
> How do you imagine to live in this city, with or without vrijplaats,
> when you don't spend a little time and effort in learning the
> language of the people you're going to live with?'
>
> 'If you don't speak my language you might be able to live with me -
> but you'll never get really close.'
>
> * vinden jullie jezelf niet erg arrogant om zo bot te gaan eisen dat
> iedereen die geen nederlands spreekt maar een woordenboek moet kopen
> of het in een maand of twee maar moet leren? Leren jullie dan met een
> wordenboek in twee maanden maar Spaans of Pools. Weet je hoe duur
> talencursussen zijn? En het commentaar van S. over vergaderingen in
> 'pidgin-English' vind ik ook vrij lomp, niet-nederlands sprekende
> krakers zijn er al meer en worden nog vaak genoeg buiten
> vergaderingen gehouden en/of zitten erbij zonder vertaling, trouwens
> dat 'goede engels' van nederlanders valt ook nog wel eens tegen en is
> meestal een soort 'neder-amerikaans' van de teevee.
> Is het zo moeilijk om een korte samenvatting van je email in het
> engels erbij te zetten? Misschien moeten we anders maar
> talencursussen organiseren, nederlands oefenen n engels (iets wat met
> bij Cineak wou doen meen ik), tot nu toe moeten mensen het op school
> leren of via vrienden of zo.
> Moet er binnen de kraakscene dan maar een inburgeringscontract komen
> met wachtlijsten en een dilpoma na behalen op te halen in de
> Vrankrijk?
> Sommige opmerkingen hierboven doen denken aan politieke diskussies
> over 'goede' en 'slechte' allochtonen die zich wel of niet willen
> aanpassen. Ik hoopte dat de kraaksien daar een beetje boven zou
> staan, maar misschien vergis ik me.
>
> * english summary:
> I complain about the feeling of arrogance that these reactions give
> me, which reminds me of the discussion in Dutch media about 'good'
> and 'bad' immigrants who adapt and assimilate and the ones who
> 'refuse' to become totally Dutch.
> As far as i know language courses are expensive, you do not learn
> dutch in two months with a dictionary and misunderstandings at
> meetings where people do speak (a bit of) english are also due to the
> bad english a lot of dutch people speak ('tv-english'). I ask people
> for english summaries with important email messages, and wonder if
> language lessons (like talking practice) can't be given around the
> squatting scene to help one another. Otherwise if people stick with
> the ideas in the quotes above I think we will see the squatting scene
> fall apart soon.
>
> P.
>
>
>
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>
>
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